#63 | Expanding Your Business Internationally

In this week's episode we share a recording of a recent webinar "Expanding Your Business Internationally." 

When expanding a company internationally, there are some obvious things that everyone has on their to-do list, such as arranging logistics and hiring new staff. 

Behind these obvious checklist items, there is a long list of smaller tasks that are easily forgotten during internationalization. The implementation of these tasks can make or break the success of an expansion.

Presented by:

IP attorney, David M. Roccio (droccio@lalaw.com) who presents the information necessary to make well-informed decisions with respect to protecting your innovations outside your home country and avoiding potential pitfalls of unfamiliar patent laws. - https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidroccio/                                            

International expansion expert and previous guest of The Global Marketing Show (show #24), Nina Ann Walters(nina@expandise.com), highlights some of the small things you can do that will have a big impact on your international success. - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ninaannwalters/ 

Our host and translation expert Wendy Pease (wmpease@rapportintl.com), who discusses how to avoid the potential traps of machine translation and optimize international growth through high-quality, culturally adapted content and translations that connect you to your target audience. - https://www.linkedin.com/in/wendypease/

And moderated by Bill Kenney (bill@meetroi.com), Owner of Meet, founder of Soft Land Partners and past Global Marketing Show (show #6) guest. - https://www.linkedin.com/in/bkenney/                         


Soft Land Partners Export Readiness Checklist - https://softlandpartners.com/readiness-checklist/


Music: Fiddle-De-Dee by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com


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ATTENTION: Below is a machine generated transcription of the podcast. Yes, at Rapport International, we talk a lot about how machine translation is not good quality. Here you see an example of what a machine can do in your own your language. This transcription is provided as a gist and to give time indicators to find a topic of interest.


[00:00:34] Wendy: Well, it is Thanksgiving this week, and that is, in the United States so it's American Thanksgiving, not Canadian Thanksgiving, that falls at a different point. And so for this week podcast, I'm actually going to post a Expanding Your Business Internationally talk that I had with some people we discussed some of the why should you do it?

[00:00:58] Why should you go [00:01:00] international? And then challenges and mistakes that you see and then some best practices and networks. And there was some really good questions. So on the call with me, you'll hear Bill Kenney. Who owns Meet. And he founded Soft Land Partners, which is a group of people from around the world that help companies expand into and out of different countries.

[00:01:26] And. two other people that I met through soft land partners, [00:01:30] it's Nina Ann Walters of Expandise. She works on strategy and operations on helping companies expand Dave Roccio who's an IP and patent lawyer at Lando and Anastasi. And then me yours, truly, Wendy Pease talking about translation, globalization and localization.

[00:01:50] So the conversation was really interesting. Bill does a wonderful job of moderating and asking questions and pulling the audience in [00:02:00] and making sure that we're all talking about the areas that we know. Some things that I learned is that Israel is the number one country on exporting first with companies because the country is so small and the business opportunity is small.

[00:02:17] They think global from the start. And then Nina also talks about the EU and how so many countries, their. If they want to expand, have to go across border. And so I thought that was really interesting. And then she [00:02:30] gets into how you have to price differently in the countries. And so I thought that was fascinating.

[00:02:36] And then somebody asked what's the difference between internationalization and globalization. So we had an interesting discussion around that, and we also talked about the global readiness checklist that soft land partners has. Launched just today. So if you're a company and you want to go global, this is a checklist that you can look at and see where you [00:03:00] are and what areas you might have to beef up on.

[00:03:02] So we'll put those in the show notes. I just really enjoy working with the international crowd. The people that we had on and listening come from all sorts of different walks in life and had some other interesting questions that we get into. So I thought I'd put that up there today. So you could hear from experts about the different areas.

[00:03:23] If you have any thoughts, feel free to reach out to me and I'd be happy to answer them. And also just a reminder [00:03:30] that if you have experience in global marketing and you want to be a guest on the show we have a link. If you search global marketing show podcast, it'll bring you to our website. We have an application form that you can certainly submit if you'd like to bring your expertise.

[00:03:46] We're always looking for somebody who has a little something to. So without further of my blabbing on and talking, let's go ahead and key up the webinar and talk between the [00:04:00] experts. Enjoy.

[00:04:02] Bill:

[00:04:02] My name is bill Kenney and I am the founder of a company called Meet. And I also run an organization called Soft Land Partners which is where I've met these three wonderful panelists that we're going to enjoy today.

[00:04:15] And the conversation we're going to talk about is expanding your business internationally. And, this is something, you know, just to frame this conversation a bit, it's, you know, in each of us comes at this from, from different [00:04:30] perspective, a perspective, some of us possibly are helping companies leave a country and expand to other places more on this sort of export and, and trade side.

[00:04:40] And then others are receiving those companies and helping them sort of be successful in a specific region or area. And maybe more on the investment or on hotness, sort of the soft landing side. And so today we're going to really talk probably about both sides of that [00:05:00] and, and get a good perspective in terms of the both where companies are challenged.

[00:05:05] What are some examples of success and best practices. And and then finally we'll talk about you know, how to, how to really make this, this all work well, and and maybe some tools that companies can use as well. So what I'd like to do is ask each of our three panelists to introduce themselves.

[00:05:24] We have Nina, Wendy and David. So if we could, Nina, if you want to give [00:05:30] a 30 or 60 second introduction on Expandise,

[00:05:34] Nina: Sure. Hi everyone. Thanks for joining I'm Nina. I'm the managing director and founder of

[00:05:38] Expandise we're an internationalization consultancy based in Berlin, Germany, and London, England, as are the other side of the pond from a lot of you.

[00:05:47] We've helped companies to expand into over 50 countries worldwide focusing on the strategic and operational parts of expansion. So we help companies decide what markets are interesting for them provided by some localization [00:06:00] and then offer them an interim management services to help them actually take that leap and put the best boots on the ground in any market.

[00:06:08] Bill: Brilliant. Thanks, Nina. And Wendy, do you want to tell us about a Rapport International?

[00:06:15] Wendy: Sure. So Rapport International, we help people expand into other countries or even market in their home countries, across different languages and cultures. We focus on real high quality culturally adapted [00:06:30] communications.

[00:06:30] So we don't use Google translate. We don't use machine translation. We're really using a human to make sure your message is communicated accurately. We provide services in over 200 languages and have helped people communicate. We've got a specialty in global marketing. I published a book this past year on global marketing.

[00:06:51] I host the global marketing show podcast where a lot of exporters and internationalists and globalists are interviewed. So you [00:07:00] can hear about their experiences, which has been a ton of fun. So happy to be here.

[00:07:06] Bill: Thank you so much, Wendy. Appreciate it. And Dave, do you want to tell us about Lando and Anastasi

[00:07:12] David: yeah.

[00:07:12] Sure. Thanks Bill. Thanks to all the panelists. Thanks Bill for kind of hosting the discussion. I really appreciate it. So my name is Dave Roccio. I'm a partner at Lando and Anastasi, we're an intellectual property boutique law firm in Boston. We help clients really of all shapes, sizes, locations protect their intellectual property.[00:07:30]

[00:07:30] And what we mean by intellectual property traditionally is patents, trademarks, copyrights, trade secrets. Really we help clients kind of formulate a strategy, protecting those innovations and ideas and concepts, and then implement that strategy. We. Work quite closely with domestic companies in the U S but also work often with companies, us companies looking to expand abroad and also foreign companies looking to enter the U S market.

[00:07:57] So we have generated quite a bit of experience, not only on [00:08:00] IP, but with, with companies as they look to expand. And I think you know, and unfortunately it's something we see quite a bit where companies kind of stumble or where companies make not the best decisions at the early stages that impact down the line.

[00:08:14] So I'm looking forward to kind of talk about those things and flush them out so we can hopefully avoid such situations with other companies that are people looking to.

[00:08:24] Bill: Fantastic. So I'm going to ask probably some pretty straightforward and simple questions. And [00:08:30] again, I want to really encourage our audience to think of your questions and jot them down as we go here.

[00:08:37] And we'll definitely have a good time at the end to ask them so we want to make sure that that's activated. I know there is one rule I gave our panelists before we start, and that it's really simple. It's this the third person to answer any question buys the beer. So I want our audience to be aware of that as well.

[00:08:56] So I'll, if we need to add a third opinion, you [00:09:00] may hear me reframe a question to to, to sort of move things along. But the goal really is to, is to get to some meat here in this topic. So. The first question is really around why expand and Wendy, I know you had some particular interesting statistics around that, and I thought that would kind of launch us into this topic.

[00:09:21] Well, and then certainly we'll get some additional perspective on this, but do you want to share some of the statistics you shared the other day in terms of why [00:09:30] companies should expand? And this is particularly I think from a us perspective, but obviously there's many more perspectives to have, but when did you say.

[00:09:38] Wendy: Yes. And the statistics are from the department of the U S government department of commerce. And what they have found is that less than 1% of us companies export and of those 98% of them are small and mid-sized companies and relative their competitors who don't export those [00:10:00] companies that do have a higher revenues, higher profits, they pay higher salaries, they have higher valuations and they're more stable companies.

[00:10:11] And the reason for that is if one market is down, another market can be up. So it's a natural way to level out the you know, the ups and downs of natural business cycles. So it's kind of a no brainer that no matter what size you are, it's good to start thinking about it from the. [00:10:30]

[00:10:31] Bill: It totally makes sense.

[00:10:32] And yeah, and those statistics, I think really kind of launches very well into kind of the why, but Nina, do you have any thoughts or anything to add or, or Dave to why expand?

[00:10:45] Nina: Sure. I mean that diversification side is, is definitely important, but certainly in Europe you tend to have to, in order to want to grow.

[00:10:54] So a lot of the markets in Europe, depending where you're based, aren't necessarily big enough to really have a [00:11:00] growing or large enough sustainable business for your business model. So I think Israel is one of the. Countries that tends to export or goes international. The quickest simply because the Israeli market itself is so small.

[00:11:13] So that means that right from the start they're thinking about expansion and internationalization and how to build something for a global market. And that means they're generally very successful compose as opposed to other companies where, which are in the U S for example, and have a much larger [00:11:30] market for game with where then the expansion is less of a priority for many more years.

[00:11:37] Bill: That makes sense. Yeah. I hate to ask you to buy a beer, Dave. So I've got to reframe this,

[00:11:47] I guess, from a, from your experience, what are you seeing in terms of why companies why it's important to.

[00:11:55] David: Yeah, no, eh, you know, and I think Nina has touched on a really important [00:12:00] point, not to go back to what she said, but you know, The expansion can be important. It can be valuable. It can be rewarding for all these companies, but coming from an IP or, you know, patents, trademarks, protecting yourself, making sure you're have success moving forward and somebody can't take what you're doing.

[00:12:19] And there's nothing you can do about it. Kind of having that plan up front in, you know, I think there's going to be a common theme from the intellectual property and patent side is coming back as [00:12:30] think about these, you know, some of these considerations early on make decisions that fit your company and fit your business and plan for the future.

[00:12:38] Because as Nina said, you know, you can have great success in your local and home market, but if you haven't set yourself up for make for decisions that you can have, if you go to Europe or if you go. And any other country, you could really be shooting yourself in the foot where you don't have those options that you thought you've had.

[00:12:54] So it's early to think about those things. Often, it's early to think about where, you know, where you want to [00:13:00] be, where your competitors are, where your customers are, and it's really taking a global holistic view of your company and how you see yourself fitting into, you know, the economy of the world, the economy of, of your market and you know, making decisions that are appropriate for your company, because, you know, just making, you know, what's traditionally the best choice or what is common and place.

[00:13:23] The best choice may not be the best fit for you. So you know, diving in and figuring out an answer, [00:13:30] maybe hard questions at the outset is, is a great place to start. So

[00:13:34] Bill: you're kind of launching us into best practices. Let's, let's back up just a little bit from there. And so what's, before we get there and I'm going to stick with you, Dave is, and it, it sounded like from your introduction that you've seen some some international expansions that haven't gone so well.

[00:13:51] Do you want to talk about some of the challenges you've seen companies have as they expand?

[00:13:58] David: Yeah know one of the biggest [00:14:00] challenges for companies as they look to expand is, you know, obviously there's not a global law system, right? There's different laws, there's different regulations, there's different considerations that need to be had for every jurisdiction, maybe root groups of countries, individual countries.

[00:14:17] So oftentimes one of the biggest places we see companies fail is not appreciating. Or taking a full understanding, maybe the different, excuse me, different local jurisdiction laws and the different jurisdictions they're entering [00:14:30] or understanding that just because things are that way in their home country, there may not be that way in the, in the country they're trying to enter.

[00:14:37] So for example eh kind of an underpinning of patent law globally is once you disclose your idea to the public, whether that be in a printed publication, whether it be at a trade show, whether that be talking to a customer, a potential partner that generally starts a clock for when you need to file your patent applications.

[00:14:56] When, you know, in the U S for example, you have 12 months. [00:15:00] So I disclose it tomorrow. I'll have 12 months from tomorrow to file my application. Other countries, there is no grace period it's immediate. So for example, a big, big problem we see comes up all the time is somebody has disclosed their events.

[00:15:15] They've gone and talked about it in the U S for example and they have in file and now they want to file directly in Europe and that can't be done. And so that whole market, that whole segment of maybe protection in Europe that they could have protected if they had done it [00:15:30] early on, is now lost to them.

[00:15:32] So that that's really the it's hard, right? Because you can say, well, it's what they don't know. And that really comes to bite them. And how do you, you know, instruct somebody in what they don't know or teach somebody how to learn what they know.

[00:15:45] Bill: Or, or, or, or, or to value it, I suppose, right. To prioritize, protecting that property before.

[00:15:52] I mean, I would imagine much of your work is remediative. In other words, people didn't anticipate that they needed it until they're [00:16:00] sort of, they have a problem. And then that, yeah. And especially in, in what you do awful hard to sort of put the cat back in the bag and once it's out let's, let's pop over to to Wendy and you know, communication obviously, and, and Dave sort of led into this is it sort of started with some marketing communication that was out there.

[00:16:19] You're dealing with companies and, and how they present themselves in a variety of markets. St. Trying to say the same thing can probably so much different, but there, there must be some [00:16:30] massive communication challenges that you see. Can you, do you want to highlight some challenges that you see in terms of companies that are.

[00:16:38] Wendy: Oh, absolutely. I love talking about this. Can I start with some more statistics?

[00:16:45] Bill: This is your small segment.

[00:16:49] Wendy: Okay. Well, first off common sense advisory, which is an industry think tank did a bunch of research about whether, you know, basically is English, the global [00:17:00] language, and how much can you get away with and do people want to read it?

[00:17:03] There was a great article in the Harvard business review that, that summarize some of their statistics. And they said that nine out of 10 people would have given a choice would rather search for something in their native language. So we're looking at bilingual people. They're always going to go to their native language, you know, 10% don't have those Almost three quarters of them are going to spend most of their time on websites in their native language.[00:17:30]

[00:17:30] And they're more light and three-quarters in those three quarters percent. I'm assuming they'd be the same or more likely to buy. If information is in their own language. And 56% said that they'd be willing to spend more money if the information was in their own language. So right here, this is telling you that you really need to consider in language marketing if you're going to connect with people.

[00:17:56] So the biggest mistakes I see is number one, people [00:18:00] saying English is the global language, so I'm just going to mark it in English. The second biggest mistake I see is putting the Google trends. Plugin on their website and thinking that that can do a good job. I just read an article from Sweden about their government.

[00:18:15] That was they use some poor translation service or machine translation. It was so poor. It ended up being a social media sensation. I think it's only a matter of time before a government gets sued because the information is not good, but that, you know, that's David's [00:18:30] specialty. And then number three, I would say is not using a professional translator.

[00:18:37] I've heard of distributors doing the translation. I've heard of internal employees. I've heard of, you know, friends and family doing it. It seems like you're saving money, but by the time you add in the opportunity costs and the risks of making mistake, it's not a good idea. I think those people are really good to review a professional translation [00:19:00] because they can give you if there's any.

[00:19:02] Specific industry or a company terminology that you'd want to use and then a good trans professional translators going to keep archives and keep that consistency of voice. So, you know, you're not using dinner in one situation and supper in the other, we're in the U S dinner and supper are used interchangeably.

[00:19:22] So those are my stats. Those are the biggest mistakes. I see. Love it,

[00:19:27] Bill: love it. Those are great. And we actually have a really good [00:19:30] audience question, but before we do Nina, I'm guessing you have seen a few challenges that companies have. What, what would be a couple of highlights from, from you?

[00:19:39] Nina: Yeah. Hundreds actually echo and build on what Wendy's Wendy's that actually in the translation is so super.

[00:19:46] But translation is not everything when it comes to localization. So one of the biggest mistakes and challenges that I see is people if companies who translate and think that's localized were [00:20:00] done, and that that's absolutely not true. I mean, I describe internationalization as walking the tightrope between scalability and localization.

[00:20:09] And on top of what Wendy said, there are numerous studies that have shown that the more you localize, the, the more that people buy, the average order value is higher. The frequency of purchasing is higher. So all of those statistics, I can, I can support both anecdotally and from, from my own research, but to take, let's take one small detailed example of this.

[00:20:29] Let's [00:20:30] say that you want to sell something for $10, euros, pounds, whatever you want to sell something for 10 bucks. How do you actually show that in some countries you would say. 10 pounds or 10, 10 currency in some, you would show it as 9 99 in the UK, for example, in Germany, you might show it more as 9 95 in France.

[00:20:51] You would probably show it as nine 90. And so these are, it's a really tiny thing, but if you're going to, if I'm going to a website and I [00:21:00] see something like 9 93, like that's really weird. That makes no sense. That's clearly been done as a translation from whatever another currency is. And it's just been exchanged.

[00:21:10] This is not how we ran things here. And it just instantly puts that tiny bit of doubt in the consumer's mind that there is distance between the company and yourself, because you're not seeing what you expect to see that standard for your market. So having an understanding of these small little points of how the customers are [00:21:30] going to interact with your product or your service and how they interact with the local ones is really.

[00:21:36] So when you're looking at competitor analysis, for example, you shouldn't only look at the international competitors, but really look at the local ones because the local competitors are more likely to have built a product specific before that, for that one market, especially if they haven't expanded yet.

[00:21:54] And so you're able to use a lot of their, I mean, data and you know, their own flavor [00:22:00] to be able to localize in a way that makes sense.

[00:22:04] Bill: That's very smart now. It's excellent. Nina. Thank you. So let's take Yosef Mueller's question here and I'll share it with a panel and one or two of you please chime in on this.

[00:22:16] So how do you think about international expansion? Different. I get differently in the new normal where international travel is not committed or significantly limited. And where has international expansion accelerated? [00:22:30] Where is it decelerated? So say, would want to share kind of what you've seen in this sort of sort of hopefully temporary age of more limited travel in terms of international expansion, what trends have you seen, this is the interactive part.

[00:22:46] Nina: I mean, definitely saw a huge drop off last year. The number of companies that were expanding, it wasn't a case of acceleration or deceleration. It was simply a case of, I don't know, When I'm going to have enough money, or I'm [00:23:00] not sure what's going to happen in the economy to have enough buffer and make sure this is going to be successful.

[00:23:05] I don't know how the plans that I've made apply in this scenario. So there was a lot of uncertainty, so there was simply a lot and just not happening. It wasn't because of the travel restrictions predominantly in the cases that, that I was discussing, I worked mainly with digital or tech based startups and scale-ups for reference rather than regular exporters, let's say.

[00:23:26] So that has definitely changed on the other hand, [00:23:30] those that have expanded and have expanded since I would say are generally doing it much quicker because they're not needing to be on the ground or they are not able to be on the ground. And that means that they're looking more for partnerships and other people that know what they're talking about, and they seem to be a little bit more likely to take advice because that advice is more easily accessible than it may have been in the.

[00:23:53] And then they've decided actually, you know what? We don't want to risk it by doing it ourselves. Oh, we can have a quick zoom call with X, Y that [00:24:00] let's let's do that.

[00:24:01] Bill: Cool, good stuff. That was good insights. And Wendy, it sounded like you had something as well.

[00:24:06] Wendy: Ah, what I was going to say is you know, travel is certainly scaled off, but as people around the world are getting more used to zoom, what I'm seeing is, is that they're still, they still there and the ones that I see taking off the most or anybody that can go through e-commerce.

[00:24:24] So anything that can take somebody through the buyer's journey to [00:24:30] purchase online and what companies are doing are looking at their statistics of who's coming in and who's visiting, and then being able to target those markets. So it goes back to those small companies that can really leverage the internet for doing it once more so that are suffering that I see are, you know, extremely high touch countries that have said as soon as this, you know, the shutdown or COVID is over, then why don't you fly out and we can meet about it.

[00:24:58] So high touch, [00:25:00] high, you know, interactive sales cycle.

[00:25:03] Bill: Hm, great observation. So Dave, I'm going to go to you with a kind of take us into the next topic area item. And courage a Yosef, if that didn't fully answer your question, please, you know when we get to the Q and a just hop on and we can get more specific as well.

[00:25:21] But Dave, you know, as we, as you kind of let us into talking about some of the challenges from a legal standpoint, w [00:25:30] you know, what are some of the best practices when companies are thinking about internationalizing in terms of protecting their intellect intellectual property and you know, when should they get started, how do they do it?

[00:25:41] All those types of things. Yeah. Thanks

[00:25:43] David: bill. So, I mean, I already touched on it a little bit. I mean, the easy answer is the earlier the better, right? So in a perfect world, we would be, you know, as a, as a intellectual property firm, we would start working with a company when they hadn't been public. Yet they hadn't talked to [00:26:00] anybody yet.

[00:26:00] They just had this great new idea or new brand or whatever it may be. And they talked to us and we send everything straight and we protect it before they go talk to everybody. I mean, that's not reality. In most cases, those companies need to raise money. They need to talk to people. They need to get their ducks in a row.

[00:26:18] They need to if they're an existing company kind of set us up, set us, set themselves up for success, like we already talked about. So it's not as easy as just saying no, no, let's protect everything beforehand. [00:26:30] Right. So what I would say is though, you know, as early as you can start thinking about Not only, you know, I'd mentioned patents and pads or pants are important or strict deadlines to file patents.

[00:26:41] But as I, you know, we hinted on at the beginning of the talk, you know, patents are not the end all be all right. There's lots of other areas, intellectual property. There's lots of other areas of innovation and development that can be protected to help you protect your company as you expand. And there just as there w there wasn't, when you're talking about patents, [00:27:00] there are certainly downsides to waiting to protect those things as well.

[00:27:03] You know, one issue, one quick anecdote, which we see quite often is it doesn't really matter what country outside of China, for example, You know, come up with a great brand. They've had great success as a company. Now they're looking to expand internationally, going to different places. Well, they go to try to record their trademark registration in China and lo and behold, what happens, turns out a squatter has already registered their name because they were successful.

[00:27:26] Well, turning into a successful global company. [00:27:30] They've already registered it. And now they're coming and say, well, we'll let you have it. If you pay us for their own, for their own development, their own brand. And it's something that easily could have been been avoided if early on in the process that company had the U S company or outside China company had protected their brand early on, but it was something they really wasn't on their mind.

[00:27:48] They thought, oh, we can do that later. And then, you know, it becomes quite costly for not doing a relatively simple task and, you know, something that they just wasn't on their plate of things to do it wasn't on there. You know, this is really important. We should do [00:28:00] it now list. And so I got to kind of got pushed down the line until they were forced to do it and forced to pay out of pocket for it later.

[00:28:07] Bill: Just a quick follow-up on that. So, cause legal costs as you, it's something you're very aware of. It's it's expensive generally in terms of sort of managing legal costs. So how does, how does a company decide and how do you help a company decide what things to prioritize now and, and what they can wait to do?

[00:28:28] Cause it, you know, obviously [00:28:30] younger companies that are expanding cash is CA is, is

[00:28:33] David: Yes, no. I mean, that's, that is the golden question, right? I mean, that's the question I was asked is, you know, when, okay, well, what, what do we want to patent? What we want to file for a patent on, okay, what do we want, where do we want to file a patent on?

[00:28:46] Okay. You know, these are all things that are very intensive questions, you know, for looking at the market, looking at what you have developed, you know, can you is enforcing whatever you protect, whether it be patent, whether it be a [00:29:00] trademark. You know, if you're thinking about expanding internationally, that's, that's great and wonderful.

[00:29:06] And you should think about protecting where you're going to be. Once you start having broader visions of, oh, well, we can protect it here too. And our competitors are here too. And what, we might have some customers here too. You gotta start getting down to like reality of, okay, well, that's all going to cost money.

[00:29:20] It's going to be money that, you know, you're going to have to keep doling out. Cause it, those are the kinds of things. Just, you know, typical government fees. They keep reoccurring and they come up every few years and you have to keep paying. [00:29:30] And also what is the real benefit of what you're paying for? Are you going to go and force a patent in, you know, halfway across the world and pay for a very expensive litigation to enforce it, maybe pro you know, for a lot of startups, know the, you know, so the there's oftentimes things you have to do because there's the timeline you have to do.

[00:29:52] And this other things you can set yourself up for success just by talking through them and realizing, okay, we know, you know, a couple of years from now [00:30:00] hope we will have the money to do this. What can we do now to protect ourselves? So that down the line, we're not looking back thinking, oh, we should have done this.

[00:30:08] This really would have been a lot easier if we had done it this way. Similarly there's other, you know, not one it's not a one size fits all kind of solution, right? I mean, every company is different. Every company has its own unique circumstances. Someone available cash. It's a, an investment situation is different.

[00:30:24] Their partnership with other organizations is different. So how do you kind of make those [00:30:30] all work together to achieve goals? That makes sense, based on the available funds, based on the time that's available and you know, picking from all the different possibilities, whether it be patents, trademarks, copyrights, and trying to piece together, you know, this is speaking from the IB side, but it really, I think is applicable to a lot of different areas, right.

[00:30:49] Making something that works for that company and then implementing. And I think it's, they're difficult questions to ask, but I think when you ask them early on and upfront, you, at least [00:31:00] maybe you don't have the resources to do everything a hundred percent like you want to do, but at least you're aware of it, right.

[00:31:04] At least, you know, okay, we're making this decision. These are going to be the consequences and now we can move forward.

[00:31:10] Bill: No, that's perfect. And w let's go, let's go to Wendy and get your thoughts, Wendy, in terms of best practices, what are the kind of key best practices that you seen. For companies that are expanding internationally.

[00:31:26] Wendy: Well, I think, you know, like David was saying that you [00:31:30] start with a strategy and know what you're looking at. If you know what your corporate strategy is for international expansion, then you can figure out what your multi-lingual strategy is going to be across you know, all your different functional groups.

[00:31:45] So let me just take marketing, cause it's something I can boil it down to. You can apply it to HR and operations and finance and everything. But if you look at marketing, you have your, you have your strategic goals, then you've got your, your marketing strategy for the [00:32:00] year. And then you have your, your global marketing strategy and.

[00:32:03] We have a fly wheel that shows, you know, all the considerations that you do for your global marketing, but you don't have to jump in and translate everything. If you think about your buyer's journey from, they don't know you all the way up to the close, what are those key touch points along the way, and what are, what is the information they need in those spots?

[00:32:27] And then you can pick and choose what you translate [00:32:30] to provide them. And, you know, one often forgotten thing is the post sale service and people will not buy from you again, if that material isn't translated, you know, so it's the, it's the same thing. If you were going to look at HR and if we're going to hire and what we need to do to, to communicate all the way, so have a strategy, figure out the messaging that you need to do, develop a process, and then you can replicate that across the other languages that you're going to

[00:32:59] Bill: [00:33:00] I love what you just said about the post-sale information.

[00:33:03] Cause I would imagine for a lot of companies, that's like the last thing they think about. Cause all they want to do is how do we get customers? How do we generate revenue? And oh yeah, we've got to retain the customers. And if the customer gets whatever it is, whatever product or service and they ended up, it doesn't prove to have much utility because they haven't figured out how to use it.

[00:33:21] Yeah.

[00:33:23] Wendy: So many easy ways to do it. I mean, there's telephone interpreting which you pay by a minute and you can dial in and get somebody [00:33:30] on there's chat bots there's live chat that you can function with. There's your user manuals. There's your website. Copy. The frequently asked questions. So there's so much that you can do to develop a relationship.

[00:33:42] Even if you don't speak the language or hire people who speak the language

[00:33:46] Bill: mix. I love it makes total sense. Cool. So, Nina how about you? What, what, when you kind of boil kind of key best practices down, what, what comes to mind.

[00:33:55] Nina: Yep. The number one thing that I start with with all my [00:34:00] clients is set your goals, know what success looks like.

[00:34:04] And more importantly, know what failure looks like. So a lot of the times I work with people and like, Hey, would you want to be like, oh, we want to expand to the states. We want to expand to Spain. Like, okay, great. But what does that actually mean for you? So some people just want to be profitable in a market.

[00:34:20] Some people don't really care what they do, anything. They just want to be there for marketing or strategic reasons. Very common it's I want to be number one in that market, [00:34:30] but by what metric by revenue, by number of users by customer satisfaction. And what you're actually optimizing for is then going to tell you how you spend your money and how you actually run the rest of your business, how you enter a market is going to look very different.

[00:34:46] If you're aiming for. Number one in terms of brand awareness, compared to profitability, right? Your marketing strategy, then it's going to look super different on your cost structures are going to be very different depending on what it is you're actually optimizing for. [00:35:00] And this is one of the reasons why a lot of international expansions are deemed to be unsuccessful because they don't know what they're measuring against.

[00:35:08] And so this is something that's really important to work out what your goals are and to, and to actually effect when to, to act when you're not successful. In that way, I had one company whose goal was to be top three in every market. They went in and they were in a super, super competitive space. And so they entered actually into the [00:35:30] UK and they were growing.

[00:35:31] They were doing really well. They were profitable. They were making revenue, they were making money and they were not top three and they closed it down and they shut it. And a lot of people were very surprised by this because like, well, you're making profit. You like your in the right direction. You'll get growing, come on.

[00:35:48] But from the competitive structure of that market, they were never going to be top three. And so they weren't actually going to reach their goals and they'd identified this, so they shut it down and left. I was surprised too till I really thought it through. And then it really did [00:36:00] make sense. So I really understand what those boundaries are and what it is you're optimizing for.

[00:36:04] Because that's going to be how you actually become successful.

[00:36:09] Wendy: It's so funny. Now you were talking about the different markets and the goals for going in, because I've heard so many different reasons as for why people enter markets. And some is as simple as the owner wants to have a vacation home in Italy or somewhere in the Caribbean or that other times [00:36:30] companies will pick a smaller company to iron out all the processes and figure out how to do it.

[00:36:37] Other times people will go into a larger company because they just wouldn't want to win market share. You know, customers. And I interviewed somebody on the global marketing show who they really did a deep dive strategy. She had a military background and they picked out which markets would make sense.

[00:36:53] And then I've heard people say, oh, well, I'm going to go into these countries because they speak English. But you know, we've translated from American [00:37:00] English to British English. So, you know, your, your goal setting reminded me of all the, you know, different reasons. I've heard of people entering markets.

[00:37:08] Nina: Yep. And this location of how did this so true. I had one company who were wanting set up in the U S and we're looking at when they're like, yeah, we're probably going to do Miami. And this was like a hardcore tech SAS product. And I'm like, okay, well, why are you then from Miami? Because I've got friends there and it's funny.

[00:37:26] I'm like, good. That's good for you. Yes. [00:37:30] But I'm not sure you want to really build your entire company strategy around the fact that you have a few friends down on south coast. So. Yeah, that was definitely a thing. So really understanding those reasons and looking a bit deeper and poking a little bit deeper, definitely recommended.

[00:37:48] Bill: That's cool. Well, in just a couple of minutes, I'm going to open it up to more audience questions, feel free to certainly use the chat to submit, but we'll, we can open mikes in just a couple minutes, but I, I do want to[00:38:00] kind of get some general reaction from our panel to a couple of things. One is each of your responses to best practices for me anyway, underscored, why having trusted advisors is important.

[00:38:12] Why having partners in in, in market that can be your eyes and ears and be your advocate as needed is really important. But you three, you know, pretty early in, in knowing each other have, have created a pretty interesting bond and, [00:38:30] and. Being on this podcast today together is, is partly evidence of that, but you've also pretty been actively been communicating and working together on your client's behalf.

[00:38:41] Does do any of you want to talk about just for a moment, the importance of networks and partnerships as you're internationally expanding?

[00:38:50] David: Yeah. I'll, I'll chime in for that bill. I mean, I think as we were hinting at earlier, you know, you don't know what you don't know a lot of times, right. And then even if you know it, how do you [00:39:00] find the answers or solutions to it?

[00:39:01] In a key to figuring, answering those questions and identifying information and how, you know, identifying problems and how to solve those problems is forming these networks and connections with people who either have been through it before, or have their own networks and connections to connect you to the right people where you can flush these ideas out, either with people who have been through the process before.

[00:39:24] So. Oh, you don't, you definitely don't want to do that if you're going into this country or no, [00:39:30] make sure you do it this way, or don't forget to do ABC, right. Things, maybe you don't even know you need to do, but by building these connections in these strong bonds with people that you trust, right. It all comes down to trust.

[00:39:41] And if I say, oh this is a great I'm not sure the answer to this, but I know when the isn't the answer. I know Nina has the answer. I know bill is the answer, but I trust you all to have the answer and have the client's best interest. It all comes down to building those relationships, building those networks so that you have people that you trust in groups that you trust [00:40:00] to collaborate with bounce ideas off of.

[00:40:04] And I think it makes you know, expanding it, you know, as, as beneficial as when he was pointing it out, it is difficult. Right. And to be doing it successfully is difficult as in most things in business. And so having these people and connections to build on is I think imperative.

[00:40:18] Wendy: Yeah, and I can add in, there is there's so many resources out there to support governments who want to export.

[00:40:26] So you start with the us federal government. Our balance of [00:40:30] trade is so far off that they offer grants and free consulting through the department of commerce. You go to the states like Meredith bond is with Nebraska. There's a whole organization of a bunch of states that are together and everybody who's in there is just passionate about helping companies export.

[00:40:48] You look at soft land partners, which you run bill you just today, you launched the readiness checklist that you put together with a group of people that all specialize in international trade across all the [00:41:00] different areas you need to think about. That's got having chapters. Are you up to now?

[00:41:04] Bill: 22

[00:41:06] Wendy: chapters around the world.

[00:41:07] So any member there can access the, you know, somebody anywhere to get answers for a country. I'm also in another group called the international executive resource group where people who have been executives internationally and they're supporting each other and continually learning from each other.

[00:41:24] So it's just a passionate group of people that want to help companies export [00:41:30]

[00:41:31] Nina: and everyone knows each other at least somewhere. Right? So the thing is that if you work with a trusted advisor, you, you find one, but then you find you actually have access to 300 of them because we're all, you know, connected.

[00:41:44] And we do all know each other and it generally just makes everything both quicker and cheaper. The number of people that are like, no, I can do it myself. I don't want to pay for an actual. And it's like, okay, fine. But if you mess it up, you've spent a hundred grand [00:42:00] and you, you, you know, you spent a hundred grand and it's probably not going to work, or like there's generally spend a little bit of money and increasing your chances of success, you know, tenfold it's the, the maps just add up, it's actually works out to be much cheaper because we also know how to get things done cheaper and quicker.

[00:42:18] And your time to market is reduced.

[00:42:22] Bill: Fantastic. Well, probably a lot more reliably to one thing, doing something for your first time and another thing, doing it for your [00:42:30] hundredth. And you know, as you were, each of you were talking, it made me reflect a little bit. A year ago, we did a, we had a virtual expo that part of it was having successful entrepreneurs who had expanded globally share their story.

[00:42:44] We did the sort of 15 minute case studies and had several of them. But the number one thing that each of them said was the main reason for their success. As a expanded internationally were the networks that they developed in the new regions, where they expand. To [00:43:00] be at the support organizations and the professionals who could help them and and developing those networks, which was number one.

[00:43:07] And that was, you know, I actually really interesting and, and completely unsolicited. So it was it was great to hear that, that reinforcement when do you kind of let us into talking about tools and I know we wanted to spend just a minute on the readiness checklist, the universal internationalization readiness checklist.

[00:43:26] Does anyone want to sort of share a little bit of that story in [00:43:30] terms of that?

[00:43:32] Wendy: I think you should,

[00:43:34] Bill: oh, this isn't, this isn't my show. I just, I'm just here to guide, but

[00:43:39] Wendy: you're the person we thank for bringing us all together and expanding our network. So yes. I'd like to hear your, your thoughts on it.

[00:43:46] Bill: Oh, well, I'll share a minute and then, then you gotta share it. But so yeah, w we've soft land partners has been around for two years and our only, the only thing we're trying to solve is helping [00:44:00] companies connect to the resources that help them expand internationally. And we kind of have a couple of litmus there.

[00:44:06] One is obviously there needs to be strong competence and number two is it needs to be strong ethics in terms of the support. That's a. And so it's been a part of our mission since the beginning to provide tools as well as that network. And, and we just through the network spent the last, I dunno, four, maybe six months working together in work groups [00:44:30] to develop a, what we think is a very comprehensive universal internationalization readiness checklist.

[00:44:36] And it ideally incorporates all the various disciplines and perspectives. The idea though, is that it's agnostic to region. So coming from, or going to any country or, or region it's agnostic to industry, and it's also agnostic to company stage as we go forward. And with your feedback we may develop additional versions of it, that address.[00:45:00]

[00:45:00] Certain from certain regions to other regions or within industries or certain company stages. But the idea was to first get this tool out, get it used and go from there. And it's available. I'll share a webpage, it's available both in a PDF format and in a digital format and it's open source. So we encourage you to steal it and use it again are the only thing we care about is helping companies.

[00:45:29] If companies [00:45:30] use it through our website we'll use that as a basis to help them make connections that are meaningful to fill the gaps. But that's really that's really it, I'm not child, but I know each of you is involved in having your ideas and, and and also proofing and whatnot.

[00:45:45] But any, anything else anyone wants to add?

[00:45:48] David: I would say, I think it's just you know, again, it's a great tool to help identify. Maybe not even answer at least identify areas that should be focused on and maybe [00:46:00] flag things that you, you know, if you're thinking about expanding that you maybe weren't thinking about before and the, the, the, with that as the goal, kind of just getting information flowing and thinking about it.

[00:46:11] I think it's a great tool especially, you know, for focusing what Nina was saying about identifying a goals, right? I mean, it's all goal oriented where all the decisions should be made to achieve those goals. Not just because things are being done for the sake of doing them, not for just because that's what other people do.

[00:46:27] But you know, when you make decisions towards those [00:46:30] goals, with this things, tools like this checklist to help you, you know, you should be comfortable making those decisions. And sink in you know, so you can justify it and you look forward and backwards that, yeah, no, that was the right call. Whether it works out or not, may be a different situation, but you know, at least you are making informed decisions moving forward.

[00:46:49] So I think it's a great tool.

[00:46:51] Bill: Cool. Yeah. I didn't, we, I don't know. As a group, we anticipated the goal being the house in Italy, but we should incorporate that into version two. Maybe. [00:47:00] Where do you want the summer homes? That's what we'll progress to that at some point. Any other comments on the,

[00:47:12] Wendy: yeah, I thought it was a great work of teamwork and I'm so glad that you led the charge to get the resource out there.

[00:47:19] Bill: Yeah, easy, easy enough. Well good. And to our audience, please, you know, again, feel free to use it as you see fit. And hopefully it support your work in some way and and your [00:47:30] goals.

[00:47:30] But and, and please give us any feedback. We know it's version one probably a few different versions, so I'm glad to continue to evolve it. So let's, let's open this up to our audience. Please feel free to unmute and come on screen. If you like and share any questions you have. Certainly we've got glad to get into any conversation here, but I'll be quiet here for.

[00:47:54] Feel free to unmute. I'm not seeing any unmuting here. If that, if you don't on mute, I'm just going to keep asking [00:48:00] questions. Okay. I'll on mute.

[00:48:05] I'm I'm with the U S commercial service. So I went the federal agency that is the export export, cheerleading society. And I feel like I'm in the choir and you've been preaching to me for, you know, the past 50 minutes. I think everything you, I think I've agreed with everything. Everyone has said.

[00:48:24] There are so many resources out there, you know, certainly beyond us, obviously. [00:48:30] That there are groups and volunteer trade clubs. They, they want to help companies get into international business for all the reasons that Wendy mentioned. It makes you more successful and stable and kind of evens out your selling cycle.

[00:48:44] And certainly to do it in a smart way, have a plan, you know, build your network. So I think this has been a great resource. I love the readiness checklist. I know SBA, the small business administration used to have one, but it got kind of junky and big. So this [00:49:00] probably is a lot more streamlined, but asks a lot of the same questions that, that I think companies need to think about.

[00:49:06] So thank you all. Thanks Meredith. And we'd love your feedback. As you have a chance to take a look at the readiness assessment, and then certainly any way we can support your work. You know, please let us know. I, as soon as you introduce yourself, says, oh, I'm here from the government. I'm here to help you

[00:49:26] with some clients that takes me about 20 years for them to actually believe

[00:49:29] Wendy: it. [00:49:30] So

[00:49:32] Bill: some of them believed well, that's, you know, some tests take longer than others. Right. That's all, that's brilliant. It looks like we have a question from Akshay. Yeah, let's, let's take this on are the terms internationalization and globalization related who wants to attack that when they, our, our, our, our word person when did you want to internationalization and globalization and, and spelled the English way?

[00:49:58] Yeah. How

[00:49:59] David: do you want

[00:49:59] Wendy: [00:50:00] me? So this is a, this is an interesting, and a good question. So if you take it into Okay, I'm going to take this into the translation and then I'm going to take it into the more global strategy and then ask Nieto to pipe in afterwards. Cause she might have a different definition.

[00:50:18] So in translation, we tend to use globalization and localization. And localization is where you really using the local language and [00:50:30] culture like Nina was talking about earlier, about how you price something, you know, what currency you're going to put it in. You know, what sports figures or actors or local people you're going to have in the picture.

[00:50:41] So that's localized. Globalization is using one good translation that might go across the world. So, you know, Spanish can be used in Argentina, Spain you know, Paraguay, whatever, you know, in the U S because we have the second largest Spanish speaking people in the world in this country [00:51:00] second, only to Mexico.

[00:51:01] So you have localization and globalization, and it's not as easy as saying consumer products are localized. And industrial products are globalized because if you could cross over and then you can take budget into account, okay, now I've heard. Globalization and kind of multinational is where a company is going to have a globalization is where you're going to have your global brand and a strategy.[00:51:30]

[00:51:30] And it's more corporate driven. Whereas multinational is would be more that you're opening pockets in different countries around the world. And they're operating very differently. I think that might've been a good idea or more frequently used in the past, but now because of the internet so much more as globalizing, you have to be careful if you're running differently in different countries, because you're really going to consume, you're going to confuse your brand message.

[00:51:55] So international and globalization, do you have another take on that, Nina? [00:52:00]

[00:52:00] Nina: Yeah. You know what I've been thinking about this the whole time you'd been speaking and cause I, I probably wouldn't ever use the term globalization when it comes to international. I can consider it more of a, an economic term rather than a business one.

[00:52:15] And so I probably would never use it in this context and I'm trying to articulate why, and I can't is the honest answer to this. I'm finding that a little bit difficult to do,

[00:52:27] Wendy: actually, Michael, I guess would be, is [00:52:30] that you never go global all at once. You're knocking off the country at a time. So you're going international towards each country.

[00:52:37] Yan

[00:52:40] Nina: Yan is the German version, but the gym word that means yes and no, the podcast.

[00:52:45] Wendy: That was your favorite foreign word.

[00:52:47] Nina: So yeah, I mean, for me, I mean, academically internationalization is the act of selling into more than one country. And sometimes having a certain percentage of your revenue coming from [00:53:00] additional countries.

[00:53:00] So that's like an actual. Definition of internationalization. And it's the problem actually that we have is that everybody uses internationalization in a slightly different way. I mean, I describe internationalization as a process, so I don't really think about it in terms of then selling into multiple countries.

[00:53:18] I really think about it in the terms of adaptation or changing things from your default but potentially local or regional way to make it suitable for international [00:53:30] markets, whether that's an international market or multiple international markets. For me, it's a very active word and the art of changing to make it suitable for multiple markets.

[00:53:39] Globalization. I, I don't really think of it that way. I think if it is more a. Almost a negative economic term in many ways. It's sort of a lowest common denominator Samira, which scenario when it comes to this adaptation thing. I dunno, I would never use two together, but I think that might be [00:54:00] me rather than anything.

[00:54:04] Bill: Well, hopefully that answers actually this question. We appreciate it for sure. But are there any other questions we can help address

[00:54:15] feel free to unmute? If you have another question

[00:54:19] Wendy: I shouldn't for David and you know, so if anybody else certainly come on, but I was, I do see people picking markets to go into, depending on the [00:54:30] language. I was wondering if anybody ever picked a country to go into because of the laws.

[00:54:39] David: That that does play a role. I would say it's not like usually the overarching reason behind it. I would say it certainly would be a reason not to go on somewhere. Especially if we're talking about especially on like the patent side, we're talking about technology, different countries.

[00:54:55] Treat different tech, different tech spaces differently. So [00:55:00] software in one country can be treated very favorable. It favorably while in other countries is not right. So you may file and in pick certain countries because you're thinking you're going to have a good chance of getting a patent on your software related technology and other countries you might say it's really not worth it.

[00:55:15] We're just going to be battling and just to spend a lot of money on being rejected anyway. So it's not, it's not a waste of the resources, another area. We see peop you know, it's, it's not so much a choice, but there's oftentimes [00:55:30] requirements from where you in the, on the patent side where you have to file first.

[00:55:34] So. Many countries have restrictions on technology developed within their borders, whether whether that be defined where the technology is located or where the inventors are citizens or where they are residences, their residency is different countries define it differently, but a large number of countries say, if there's an invention invented in our borders, you must file here first [00:56:00] or get permission from us to go abroad first.

[00:56:03] And that is an area. That is oftentimes missed and people find it very surprising. And the penalties can be quite severe in that you won't be able to get up that this could be very bad business wise. You won't be able to get a patent in that, in that local home jurisdiction, if you ever want to buy more, if I'm not, then not, there's also criminal penalties assigned with that as well.

[00:56:22] So there can be monetary and jail time assigned with sending your invention outside. And the theory is, you know, they're trying to limit the [00:56:30] disclosure of inventions that could be important to national defense, usually nuclear power, that sort of thing. Some countries limit it. So they say, okay, as long as it's not related to that, you're okay.

[00:56:40] Other ones, because they don't want you making the decision on what's important to the government. They put a broad net around all that saying everything must be just filed here first, or you must receive. So, yeah, go ahead.

[00:56:55] Bill: I'm sorry. It's just going to say I'm sensitive to we're coming to the end of the hour here.

[00:56:58] And some people probably have [00:57:00] places to go, but before we close up, I'd love just any final comment, encouragement kind of rule of internationalization that you find really compelling. 30 seconds I'll kind of hit each review and then we'll we'll get things closed up. But Nina, when, when you think about you have kind of the, the real big rock of internationalization and what makes companies successful, what, what comes to mind for you?[00:57:30]

[00:57:30] Your

[00:57:30] Nina: goals? That is always my things. That is one thing is make accessible. And also, I mean, have plan a, B and C, but like really have to throw it all up line a as much as you can. A lot of people like to dip their toe in and see. And if your competitors are going all in, you're going to be that

[00:57:49] Bill: brilliant.

[00:57:50] Love it. Love it. Thank you, Nina and Wendy?

[00:57:52] Wendy: Yes, I had a brilliant, oh, I know what it was. The reoccurring theme in the global marketing show [00:58:00] podcasts that I have a whole list is to stay curious. Because if you worry about language and culture and, you know, success and all of that too much, or you try to do it too much, the American way that can sink you.

[00:58:14] But if you just stay curious about what you're doing you can build those relationships and that will lead to your success.

[00:58:22] Bill: I love it. I hear it. And talk about ego a lot. And I think curious and ego have a lot to do with each other. So I love that very much, [00:58:30] David.

[00:58:31] David: Yeah. I mean, we're kind of restating here for me.

[00:58:34] And to further Nina's point mean, you set your goals and make decisions that are specifically tailored to your business to achieve those goals and to do that, it really requires a holistic view of your company, your business, where you currently are, where you, where you want to be, how to get there.

[00:58:51] And don't, you know It may be taking a common majority view on things, but that all we know is not necessarily the right answer all the time. So do things [00:59:00] that are right for you and your business.

[00:59:02] Bill: Fantastic. Oh, this has been excellent. I, each of you is I think contributed an incredible amount to this discussion.

[00:59:09] You know, thank you, Nina. Thank you, Wendy. Thank you, Dave. And thank you to our audience. We're going to have all of the contact information in the discussion area or in the description area and in YouTube. But please make sure you like subscribe and connect with these fine folks offline, but Nina is the best way to connect with you through [00:59:30] LinkedIn through your website.

[00:59:32] Yep, absolutely. LinkedIn, Wendy. Okay. Wendy, any

[00:59:36] Wendy: preferred fabulous I'm on there all the time. So when did translation.

[00:59:43] Bill: Excellent. And Dave, any any preferred mode

[00:59:46] David: anyway, LinkedIn's fine. Email D rockiyo@lalaw.com.

[00:59:51] Bill: Cool. Awesome. And again, we'll put that contract in the description. Thank each of you.

[00:59:56] Thanks to our audience. It's been great to see you all today.

[00:59:59] Wendy: [01:00:00] Thank you so much for being a host with the most.

[01:00:03] Bill: Well, you guys are too kind. All right. Enjoy your day, everybody. Nina, have a great evening. Anyone from outside the us have a great rest of your day.

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