#141 | Cultural Intelligence Drives Biotech Success

ATTENTION:  Below is a machine-generated transcription of the podcast. Yes, here at Rapport International we talk a lot about how machine translation lacks quality. Here you see an example of what a machine can do in your own language. This transcription is provided as a gist and to give time indicators to find a topic of interest. 

 

Wendy: Welcome to The Global Marketing Show. I am recording here from the RESI conference in Boston. It's very exciting to be in person to record The Global Marketing Show. That's sponsored by Rapport International. So this episode's tidbit is about down the street. So in Thailand, it's a common greeting to say, Hey, where are you going? 

And the polite answer is to say down the street. So I thought that was a really good one. So today's guest or this episode's guest is Maria Kondratyev and she is from Aeterna Therapeutics, which is based in San Diego. So welcome Maria. It's great to have you on the show.  

Maria: Thank you so much. It's great to meet you.  

Wendy: Yes. Nice to meet you too. So tell me a little bit about Aeterna Therapeutics and what you do.  

Maria: Sure. Thank you. So we're a very young company. I launched it with a great team of scientists in San [00:01:00] Diego about six months ago. However, our goal is to change significantly the way many metabolic diseases are treated, including diseases in pediatric space. 

For kids that have gross hormone deficiency, for example, we have developed a completely novel way to more efficiently treat this kind of patients. And I brought the idea with me from Canada, actually. So I moved from Canada to California about two years ago. And, I was really blessed to meet a lot of great people to help me and here we are right now, fundraising and meeting more great people to grow our team. 

Wendy: Good. Okay. So tell me a little bit more about the therapeutics and what it does.  

Maria: So basically, the way I like to say it, we found a way to use antibodies the way nobody ever used them before. What [00:02:00] we do, there is a lot of different diseases. that result from our body not producing enough or certain hormones that have very short lifespan. 

So these hormones are produced and they cleared within minutes from our bodies, which is normally fine. But sometimes our bodies produce so little that the hormone doesn't have enough time to do its job. Like for kids, for example, with gross hormone deficiency, they simply stop growing the moment they are born. 

 So typically how these patients are treated. They get injected every single day with a needle that contains the hormone made in the lab. And this works. These kids start to crawl. But it's really difficult. Every day? Every single day. Can you imagine?  

Wendy: And how long does that last? 

Maria: You have to do it until puberty, more or less, and it becomes even more difficult in teenagers because they are [00:03:00] embarrassed, it's painful, they don't want to be injected every day. They want to go on with their life, play with their friends, travel. A lot of families actually refuse this treatment. 

There is a huge issue. Treatment works. People don't want to do it. It's too inconvenient. It's expensive.  

Wendy: And what happens to the child if they don't get the growth hormone then?  

Maria: They grow very, very slow. So I actually have a good childhood friend who has two boys. One is eight and one is fifteen. She's been asked if those are twins. 

So they look exactly the same. And this is very, very embarrassing, as you can imagine for the older child. So it's an issue. And we offer something completely different. So instead of using this daily injections, we offer to use antibody therapeutics, where we generate antibody against this hormone. 

We make sure [00:04:00] this antibody doesn't interfere with with what the hormone used to do. It simply binds to the hormone on the body and causes its stabilization. So we can extend half life of this hormone from minutes to weeks. Hence, we can inject once a month. So this is a completely different story. 

Basically, this teenager can just go to the nurse's office at his high school, get the injection and go on with his life being a normal kid.  

Wendy: Right. Oh, and to change it from every day to once a month, it's life-changing. 

Maria: It is life-changing. I gave you an example of gross hormone deficiency, but really there is a lot of different diseases, including oncology, obesity, diabetes. 

Where we can use this same concept and we're going to expand there once we grow a little bit.  

Wendy: Awesome! Okay. And so what stage are you at now?  

Maria: So we are at early stage. We have a first set of assets [00:05:00] for efficiency that we generated based on collaboration with Toronto University, actually. 

 And right now we are willing to move them forward. So we showed that they work in mice. We have some early proof of concept data in mice. Now we need to make them into drugs. And that costs a lot of money. So this is basically where we are. We want to move them into drugs. We want to test them in monkeys. 

That's the next step before regulatory and before starting clinical trials. And in parallel, we want to start two new programs in metabolic space.  

Wendy: Okay. And since it's a show on global marketing, it sounds like you're going into marketing the company for fundraising at this point. 

  

Maria: Yeah, that's true.  

Wendy: So tell me what you're doing to fundraise. Where are you looking?  

Maria: Well, it's a lot of networking. And, as I mentioned, I brought the idea [00:06:00] from Toronto and in fact, my first fundraising was from Canadian Commercialization grant. So I moved here with a goal to start this company. 

Actually, most of my life was in academic institutions and this is where Canada is very different from the US. There is a great academic environment, a lot of great science, but not a lot of industry at all. Not a lot. It's like mainly university, at least in Ontario. Like when you go to Quebec, it's a little different. 

There is more pharmaceuticals there, but in Toronto, it's very academic. So this was my big push to move here to commercialize my ideas and to actually make drugs because there I got a lot of scientific support but I couldn't really fundraise much. So I moved here two years ago to San Diego, I say here, but really, to the US, to San [00:07:00] Diego. 

The US, Boston, San Diego. And the cultural environment there is completely different. Like basically you go to a brewery and you meet a lot of people who all starting biotech companies and also such a warm climate in terms of, well, warm overall, but also warm people wise. Everybody starts to help each other right away from two seconds of conversation. 

So people are very open and it's a very community-based effort. So I immersed myself in that. That was very much a growing step for me as an entrepreneur. But then I went back to Toronto and I pitched, like I polished my idea into being something more commercializable based on all of these great people I met in California. And I went back and I got $250,000 commercialization grant to keep generating data. [00:08:00] Oh, nice. So I think this collaboration between two countries actually helped a lot, both countries, because like Toronto University got to get involved in such great project in a more commercially polished way. 

And of course, San Diego community got this great idea that was born in Toronto. So I think that's a good example of international collaboration.  

Wendy: Oh, it certainly is. Canada is one of the biggest export partner that the United States has and it makes sense with them.  

Maria: There's a lot of Canadians that actually moved to San Diego. We're a big community there. About five families of my friends moved with me.  

Wendy: So then you're looking to fundraise in the United States or would you go offshore to other areas?  

Maria: So I [00:09:00] switched four countries during my life. 

I was born in Moscow. I was raised in Tel Aviv. I actually, yeah, I actually had my undergrad and my master's from Tel Aviv University. I had my PhD and postdoc in Canada and then I moved here, right? So I think I have an advantage kind of, from a lot of different people that are fundraising - born and raised in the US in one state. 

Because I'm more open minded in terms of talking to other people from other countries, for example, I made a great friend while actually interviewing for a job, funny enough, before I started this company. He was from Brazil. His name is Rafael and he launched four different biotech companies in San Diego and most of his investors are from Brazilian funds. 

And this is something that is a little bit unusual. And like a lot of people who I talk to wouldn't think [00:10:00] to go collaborate with Brazilian funds. Yet I made this networking and we're actually having several meetings this week with his colleagues from Brazil. And in fact, we're connecting a fund in the US with a fund in Brazil for possible co-investments in our company and in future companies.  

Wendy: How fascinating! Okay. So even though you might have more connections in Russia and Israel and Canada and the United States, you're actually talking to investors in Brazil for your company that was founded in Canada and is launching in San Diego. 

Maria: Exactly. So a lot of different cultural things involved. Yeah.  

Wendy: Yeah. And what do you think some of the challenges are and benefits of looking international? I know a lot of Americans, people from the US, I'm using American term generally, are afraid to go cross culture because they're afraid of the language or misunderstandings. 

[00:11:00] Yeah.  

Maria: Yeah. I think, well, language obviously is a big barrier. Yeah. And depending on the country, in some countries English is really good, in others it's not that much, even in science and business. So definitely language barrier can be scary. I know four languages, so I'm less scared of communicating with a person who is not necessarily excellent in English because I know how to adjust to this. 

I myself was not excellent in English several years ago. So you learn, but for a lot of people who know only one language and lived in one country their whole life, I think language barrier is a big thing. The other thing is just cultural differences, like sometimes you're not sure how to talk to a person who was raised in a different environment. 

Like, we know we smile, it means one thing, in other culture it can mean completely different thing, or like look in a person in the eye, right? We had this course [00:12:00] during my MBA, where they taught us a lot about how some people can get offended when the other person doesn't smile at them, but remain serious. 

But it can be vice versa. From another culture, you can get offended if someone smiles at them because that's too personal..  

Wendy: So have you run into those experiences? Yes, definitely. Tell me some stories I love hearing them.  

Maria: Well, less so in San Diego, because San Diego is less diverse. I would say, but Toronto is very multicultural. 

So in one lab, there can be people from 10 different places, and I encounter that a lot. And actually, let me tell you a story completely not related to work. We go out to a Chinese restaurant, and I have visitors from Israel, and there it's less of a Chinese community than in Canada. And you order something and the waiter doesn't smile at you, but she's rude, but she's not rude. 

It would be rude for her to smile at you because in their culture [00:13:00] you smile to your very close family or to your friends. It's impolite to smile to a stranger. So that's a good example. You could see it. You definitely need to know different cultures a little bit more and be exposed to them a little bit more to be comfortable. 

Wendy: Yeah, so back to the language. You speak four languages, so I'm guessing English, well I know English, Russian, Hebrew.  

Maria: Hebrew and French. It's getting away from me, but I studied French for about eight years during my childhood.  

Wendy: Okay. I was stumped on that fourth one. All right. And so if you don't speak the language, like if you're working with a Brazilian investor where you don't share a language, how would you handle that? 

Maria: Well, I think you definitely need a middleman in this case. I was lucky enough to make this friend, Rafael, who speaks both languages fluently so he's connecting me with his community, but that's because [00:14:00] also, as I mentioned, I'm all very open minded to connect to other cultures, but for many people, you definitely need some help and support from some kind of translation services or, but it has to be professional translational services, right? 

Because sometimes it's very difficult to just translate scientific terms from one language to another. And another example I can give you, my mom was also a scientist, a biologist. She passed away two years ago from cancer, but she actually was the one who brought me my passion to science. 

But she got all of her education in Moscow. So she speaks to me about things like PCR, which is something that we see in the lab all the time. And I have no idea what she means. And every day she says it, I have to, Oh my God, what does she mean? And it can even sound funnier like this word. 

So you have to know, [00:15:00] not only translate, but you have to also know how to translate professionally. I think that that's extremely important or it's just going to sound a little gibberish.  

Wendy: Yeah. Well, we've done patent translations when there's no translation for the word. We have to work with the client to figure out whether we're going to come up with a translation, keep it in the original language, or come up with a brand new term. 

Or the other way is to give a longer translation that's more of a descriptor.  

Maria: Okay. Oh, actually, that's really interesting. Yeah. Because that's true. Not every language has the same word for the same thing.  

Wendy: Or if it's a patent, it's something brand new that may not have been in that language before. 

So how do you handle that? So the scientific terms, the technical terms, or anything regulatory. And so you were talking also about the [00:16:00] culture. So now that you've operated in cross cultures, what are some suggestions you give to people that come from one country, one culture, and are trying to work cross cultures? 

Maria: Well, I would say read. Read literature, read fiction. It helps.  

Wendy: Oh, that's a wonderful idea. Read fiction books about that country, language, culture.  

Maria: Yeah. When I met the Brazilian people, I started to research what kind of books they read when they're growing up because I think we are all made up so much of what we're exposed to as kids in terms of books, in terms of movies, it's all engraved in our brain, right? Yeah. So in order to understand a person, just become a person a little, right? Right. Oh yeah. So I think that that's great. Even watch TV sometimes that's helpful too. I actually learned English. 

A lot of what I learned in speaking English was from [00:17:00] watching the TV show Friends because when you learn in class, you don't learn how people talk on the street or with each other, right? When you watch TV shows, at least you do. So get immersed in their culture, in their day-to-day culture. 

Wendy: That's a good idea. Years ago when my father was in Russia, he was in agriculture. So he was doing ag research. He visited Russia, and he was out in a farming community and they took him to the theater one night and he sat next to a young girl and he spoke English with her. 

And here he is in the middle of farming community, Russia, speaking English to this young girl. And he says, well, how did you learn? And she said, from watching American TV.  

Maria: Yeah, it was cool in Russia because they were not allowed to watch an American TV for a very long time. And then once they got exposed, everybody was watching it nonstop. 

So it was considered really cool. It was able to [00:18:00] watch it.  

Wendy: Yeah, it was unfair. So in the extra layer of motivation. Oh, okay. Well he was surprised in how well she learned. So that's a good idea. So read books about the culture and watch TV and understand the culture. It's a reminder of not bringing your culture and your expectations into how somebody else should act, but understanding how they do and adapt it.  

So how can we help you, or what are you looking for at the RESI conference?  

Maria: Well, at the RESI conference, we're trying to fundraise, as I mentioned. So I was actually, to the point we were discussing, I was actually kind of happy to learn that there are a lot of different countries that are presented from the investment point of view. 

I've been to BIO before, in April, I've been to BIO in New York. It was more US-oriented investors. Here I see a lot of people from Europe, a [00:19:00] lot of people from Canada, a lot of people from Israel, Japan, China, so that's great and actually this is where those skills come in handy. How to talk to people from different cultures. 

I have meetings for the next three days with people from different countries every half an hour. So it's not only to know how to talk to them. You need to be able to switch quickly. So expertise is yours is very valuable for such conferences for sure.  

Wendy: Yes, yes, at the conferences and a lot of people here are English speaking and there are a lot of investors from different parts of the world. 

And I was talking to the founder of Life Science Nation, who's going to be a podcast guest and the recording is coming out in a couple of weeks. And he was saying that that's one of the biggest mistakes that people in the US make is not thinking about other countries where they might have that specialty  

[00:20:00] research in a disease state or in a technology and looking for investors there or in a population that might suffer from the disease state, have a higher propensity for it, that there might be investors.  

Maria: Yeah, especially in the rare diseases. I mean, this is  

such an important field, rare diseases, and if there is one fund and it's across the world, it's important that we should be able to communicate to that fund. 

Wendy: Yeah, so any other suggestions about reaching funders in different parts of the world? Like you had a connection with somebody from Brazil. How would you go about expanding your international network for fundraising?  

Maria: This is actually a very good question. It's not that easy. 

Yeah. It's not that easy. I guess going to conferences is one thing. I know RESI has several locations, like there's one coming up in London.  

Wendy: Yes, in London, they have one in Barcelona, and then they've got one out in the West Coast.  

Maria: [00:21:00] Yeah, so that's a great way to start, to travel, and expand your horizons, I would say just do some research about different organizations, as you mentioned, that is very relevant to your work in different parts of the world, don't just put US as a filter when you want to talk to people. And then initiate conversations that might be tricky to initiate them, but in the end it can be very rewarding, both for your company and for your personal growth.  

Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. Well, this has been an absolute pleasure to have you here today and record this podcast episode with you. You've got such a global background and upbringing. 

I have a feeling you can transfer or transition between cultures very easily. And so it's nice to see.  

Maria: Yeah, it was very educational. [00:22:00] You learn more, a lot more from moving from country to country. . Right. 

Right.  

Wendy: Just honestly. All right. Through all your travels and all your learning, you know this question's coming up. I always like to ask, what's your favorite foreign word?  

Maria: Okay. So, you know, actually and I liked how you mentioned that you have this way that you developed to come up with new words that do not exist in a different language. 

So Hebrew is a very interesting language. It's very unique because it's so old, but it's also was completely on pause for centuries. And then when Israel started, it had to be revived. So a lot of words never existed when Hebrew language started, right? Because it started like 2000 years ago. [00:23:00] 5000 years ago. 

So they had to invent them. And it was really funny for me to learn how they had to invent words. And some of them they brought from different languages. So they sounded a little bit like Russian, a little bit like English. And some they just came up with. So this word stuck with me. It's completely random world, but it just sounds so funny. 

The word is kumkum. Kumkum and it means a coffee maker. And this is just like so funny because like, why kumkum? I don't know. It sounds funny. And I remember that because you will not find this word in a language that has stable history. So this is a word that is like a child word, right? 

Yes. But that you make up when you say something, not because it evolved by generation.  

Wendy: That's hysterical. How do you say coffee in Hebrew? Coffee. There's no other version for that. That is a good word and that is a new one. Well, thank you so much. I have here as a [00:24:00] gift the book that I wrote. It's called The Language of Global Marketing. 

Oh, thank you. That's great. Thank you so much. And I really appreciate you taking the time for being here. Thank you so much. And thank you listeners. And if you enjoyed this show, please give it a five ranking and pass it on to somebody that you know, that might be interested in learning about global marketing or have a business that could go global, or is looking to raise funds from anywhere in the world. 

Thanks so much. And we'll catch up with you next episode.